If you could write a "fusion" PSG course...

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 21 Sep 2007 6:23 am

In my experience, I've noticed that it's very difficult... though not impossible, with concentrated study... for most musicians to transcend the style or genre they either grew up in or dedicated themselves to professionally.

IOW, hand a Beatles tune or a Led Zeppelin tune to a western swing band of men in their late 60's-70's, and I'll bet the ranch it's gonna come out sounding more like western swing than a Beatles or Zep tribute band.

Conversely, an analagous result would occur when a George Jones tune gets in the hands of a hair-metal band. Chances are good "The Grand Tour" is gonna come out sounding metal.

One exception to this observation is my friend and fellow forumite David Biller, who's one of the most serious students of guitar I know. He's got the ability to get to the essence of whatever style he's playing and recreate it, only singing his own song. Two others I know/knew that come to mind are Junior Brown and Doug Sahm.

Authenticity requires immersion. If a player is just floating on the surface of whatever he's playing, he'll sound like it to those who are in the deeper end of the pool.

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 21 Sep 2007 7:04 am

My own musical background goes back to the "great folk scare", and along the way I've played almost everything except hard bebop.

I suggested "country-rock" as a title for a course for one major reason, and I could be wrong about this: this is the path that seems to lead most "outsiders" to steel, at least in my generation. And it seems to be the path that is pulling people into the "alt" or "Americana" movement. From a purely marketing standpoint it would be a good idea to brand a course with a title/topic readily understood.

On a content basis, I'm the first to admit that I'm really not qualified, but I *don't* hear "country" changes over a rock rhythm section. I hear that as an influence, but Sneeky is a great example of someone playing totally unexpected things over a rhythm section that sometimes played straight country, and sometimes played straight R&B (listen to "Ain't that a Lotta Love", pure Stax). And while I forgot Buddy Cage in my original list, I hear him as bringing a different approach as well. The kind of "warped country" style NRPS brought is another example of how this material might differ.

Personally, I'd buy this course -- book, DVD, webcast -- in a flash. It's what brought me here.

But back my original question, how would you cover it? What kind of an outline would work best? For example, I don't think any of the books out really work from an instructional standpoint. I'd write it to get someone up to playing *something* within the first 10 pages. I would build up to a complete simple three chord song in *one* key (three chords, one scale) before ever even talking about other keys and chord forms. And I would use recognizable modern tunes, hooks, etc as exercises. And as much as I admire the folks who built the tradition, I'd move all of that material to an appendix.

Just a thought.

-eric

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 21 Sep 2007 7:43 am

I DO think country rock steel is largely just country steel, which is what i was saying in my very first post in this thread. I also think to most people outside of country music, "country rock" is about the same thing as country. I dont think my generation knows what country rock is or beleives its a distinct entity separate from country (unless they are fans who are aware of the history). Your average joe probably thinks "country rock" means stuff like Alabama...

I have a question tho, can anyone name a "rock" steeler I might have heard of?
If it has steel, does it then automatically cease to be rock? It kind of does for me...or I just havent heard any real rockin steel yet.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 21 Sep 2007 7:44 am

Here are a few links to look at if anybody is interested in learning how to play blues based phrases like guitar players use:

http://www.dougbsteel.com/PentPage.htm

Joe Wright has a fantastic system that works that will get you going on learning the steel without sounding particularly country unless that is how you want to sound. In the free pages he has a BC pedal lesson that is very useful.

http://pedalsteel.com/joe/

The Sacred Steel style has some very different ways of playing not associated with a country sound at all that are explained in a couple DVDs by Chuck and Derick Campbell available from:

http://www.homespuntapes.com/

In particular the left hand blocking is a revelation.

What I do these days is if I hear a phrase I think sounds great is I just listen to it a million times and practice it till it sounds right. The cool thing about the pedal steel is that you can find at least 3 different ways and places on the neck to play the exact same musical phrase.

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 21 Sep 2007 7:59 am

Ben Jones wrote:I DO think country rock steel is largely just country steel, which is what i was saying in my very first post in this thread. I also think to most people outside of country music, "country rock" is about the same thing as country. I dont think my generation knows what country rock is or beleives its a distinct entity separate from country (unless they are fans who are aware of the history). Your average joe probably thinks "country rock" means stuff like Alabama...

The folks I know who consider themselves "alternative" or "roots" or "Americana" would gladly shoot you for even insinuating that they play "country"

but most of them consider the "country-rock" people their direct ancestors.

That said, I'm the first to admit I'm not an expert on what's hip these days.

-eric

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 21 Sep 2007 8:30 am

The folks I know who consider themselves "alternative" or "roots" or "Americana" would gladly shoot you for even insinuating that they play "country" but most of them consider the "country-rock" people their direct ancestors.

That said, I'm the first to admit I'm not an expert on what's hip these days.

Im no expert either. Even tho its very close to the music I make, I could never really get into the "alt-country" thing. Just didnt move me. I dont listen to Son Volt (not that they're bad or anything) and i dont read No Depression. So I dont know much about that musical movement or how they view themselves.

I was just proposing that your average joe with little or no country music knowledge just kinda lumps it all into "country".

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 21 Sep 2007 8:39 am

Ben Jones wrote: I was just proposing that your average joe with little or no country music knowledge just kinda lumps it all into "country".

No argument there

-eric