Playing live vs home alone

[Alex Piazza]

Ive been frustrated latley playing live. Ive been learnig all of this new stuff at home using all of the knee levers. however, when Im playing with the band live, I feel like im playing the same old licks over and over. just rocking the ab pedals, and not using any of the new stuff. I think part of this is because im too worried that these levers and licks arent going to fall in line with the tunes. I also feel that part of it is being constrained by playing with a band. I was wondering how many of you guys that can play all of this complicated stuff find yourselves a little reserved when doing the live thing. Any suggestions on how to branch out, other than just growing a pair and going for it?

[Tom Campbell]

Alex

The old licks were once "new" licks at one time and you had to play them then. The only way your new "stuff" will become old "stuff" is if you play them. Also, the only way to work out the kinks in the new stuff is to play it "under fire"!

[Jody Sanders]

What Tom said. Jody.

[Earnest Bovine]

I think this is a deep question: how to be creative while facing the pressures of live performance or recording, the judgment of musicians and nonmusicians, and your own ideas of style and taste.
I don't know any answers besides trying, at every moment when I play, to fixate on searching for something that sounds fresh to me. I try to hear something new in my mind's ear first, rather than imagining on the guitar/hands/knees/feet.

[Tony Prior]

Historically if you are playing live you are going to use what is in AUTO PILOT mode.

this is common for all of us I suspect.

Playing with other players is a totally different beast than the practice session. We must listen all the time to the big picture, no time for noodling...no time to plan phrases, they have to just arrive.

The more you work LIVE the more phrases will be placed into Auto Pilot.

take one or two tunes that the band does and only work on those during your practice session. Practice something that you are wanting to add when you play LIVE. Over and over again.

make some very basic BIAB tracks and play over them as you would in the live scenario.

make your practice session count towards the LIVE gig.

repetition.

Those phrase will grow into more phrases and so on and so on as you embellish.

tp

[Jack Stoner]

Then there are people like me that don't know any better and will try new things, nothing planned usually just the spur of the moment, when on stage. Sometimes they come out great other times it's "why did I try that?"

But as noted, "under fire" is the best way.

[Alex Piazza]

Tony, what you described as AUTO PILOT is exactly what happens. Thats some good advice. Im definatley on stage more than im practicing. And my practicing is just noodling and non productive.
I dont have that problem on the 6 string because im much more familiar with the neck. I feel like I can hit bad notes and come out of it like I was doing it on purpose. havnt gotten there on the steel just yet.

[Dave Mudgett]

Spot on, Earnest. This is the essence of the problem of creating music, IMO. I have to try to imagine the music first and then cobble together any missing technique to do it, or I just wind up on autopilot, which is real easy to do.

I also don't know any easy answer to ensemble acceptance of my ideas. Many musicians have preconceived notions about what is "right", and it is sometimes very difficult to get them to consider anything else. If I think I have a chance to get away with it, I just throw it up on the wall, and sometimes get shot down. I guess it's important not to take rejection too personally.

[Marc Friedland]

Alex,
I agree with others who have stated correctly about incorporating what you practice into your playing by not being afraid to do so, and eventually the repetition will make your comfort zone that much bigger.
I would also like to point out another perspective –
Many times, a very simple part is what works best for the song, and trying to throw in more complex parts where you’re engaging multiple pedals and knee levers just because you’re able to, doesn’t necessarily make the music sound better.
From my own experience, a good example of this is that at home I practice with a S10 4 & 5, and yet when I perform, it’s usually with a guitar that has one less floor pedal. For the music I like to practice at home I find the additional pedal very beneficial, yet for the bands I play with, I rarely get to even use all of the changes I have available, and would seldom, if ever, get to use the additional pedal. I’m comfortable playing with those additional options, but I CHOOSE not to, based on what I think works and sounds best with the music I’m playing. I could get by fine on 95% of the tunes we play, with only 3 pedals and 3 knee levers. I guess I should point out that the bands I play with typically play a combination of old and new country, and also some classic rock. It may be that if you want to adventure into playing more than you’re already playing, you actually need to play with bands that are playing some different music, or practice to tracks at home, and realize that you may or may not be able to bring your whole bag of tricks into every gig or recording session you’re involved with.
-- Marc

[Tony Prior]

Playing new stuff..things we have never played before

Interesting..

I suspect that means playing in and around melodies or phrases that we already are very familiar with, not the same, but perhaps a different approach...or perhaps working with Ped/Lever combo's which we are already very familiar with.

Jack mentions spur of the moment, which I believe is recall of things he already knows either in his head or on the fretboard.

He can do that because he is very familiar with his Instrument and he got that way from....

Practice and experience

[David Nugent]

I have the group I am working with make CD's of their tunes with just the bass, guitar, drums, and vocals, leaving spaces where the steel licks are to go. This enables me to experiment with different licks and to know exactly what it will sound like live.

[Aaron Harms]

I also feel that part of it is being constrained by playing with a band. I was wondering how many of you guys that can play all of this complicated stuff find yourselves a little reserved when doing the live thing. Any suggestions on how to branch out, other than just growing a pair and going for it?

My disclaimer is that I am not one of those guys, but having just come from possibly the worst gig of my short career....what I found last night was, when the guitar player shatters a finger, the steel player tends to play more (and often "branching out") licks. It was....awful. BUT, I can say that as for "growing a pair", it helped

The other thing that has been helpful to me is to have the band actively write songs using the things that I play...whether on steel, guitar, bass, what have you...don't know if that's an option for you, but, hope this helps.

A

[Eric West]

Alex. I haven't read all the above posts, but I know what you are talking about.

What I have done is take ONE LICK that you are working on, and try to put it into at least a couple songs. No need to overdo it. Get it set in your mind on your way to work, and don't forget it. Just a lick or two. One At a time.

Live playing is very funny. Until you play a lick in public a couple times, it's not going to be "in your bag". Every time you play it, it becomes more ready, and on from there.

Also, if the band won't can you, GET OUT THERE, and MAKE SOME FLUBS. MAKE THEM LOUD. Like I said, only if you won't get canned or they're too stupid.

My regrets after thirty years of playing "truck driving man" too many thousand times is that ai didn't GET OUT THERE and play the stuff I knew I could have played "just to be safe".

If you have a song, like Four Wheel Drive, Raisin the Dickens,Panhandle Rag, whatever your favorite instrumental is, or especially Bud's Bounce, get the band the chords, and beg them to bear with you the first couple times you play it.

I'm doing the opposite thing with Telecaster, though I've played 'couch guitar for 40 years' and am now at the age where I don't have the years in front of me at 54 to "play it safe". I've noticed like I said, that even if I "can play a lick", until I play it in Public SEVERAL times, it just ain't gonna "be there".

Good luck.

Now go out and get fired a couple times...



FHLE

[Donny Hinson]

Many times, a very simple part is what works best for the song, and trying to throw in more complex parts where you’re engaging multiple pedals and knee levers just because you’re able to, doesn’t necessarily make the music sound better.

Brilliant, Marc, simply brilliant! Pete Drake built almost his entire career around simple 3+1 stuff. Fancy scales, or different licks and pedal moves, might impress other steelers. (They're the only ones counting licks and listening for different scales.)

Everyone else is listening to the music.

Too often, we feel others will be impressed by the things that impress us.

Ahhh, if only the world worked that way - we'd all be famous.

[Paul King]

We have all experienced what you are feeling. There are some nights I just cannot think of anything different and then some night licks just come to me without any problem. The biggest part of people listening do not know the difference.

[Colin Mclean]

Another advocate of the school of "playing under fire".

I used to like to play a couple of 'low-ball' gigs here and there with my band, in between some of the bigger shows. That is, gigs where there's maybe 5 people in the bar and none of them are sober enough to know the difference. Sure, it's not the same as when people are actually listening, but still I've found this is a good way to bridge the gap between practice and shows you care about, and try new stuff--new songs/new equipment included.

It's like you're practicing, but with people watching. Even if you could care less about their opinions, it's still more 'under fire' than practicing in the bedroom or in the bass player/drummer's garage. Try it once a month or so--trust me, it works. For me anyway, I suppose YMMV.

[Colin Mclean]

Sorry, double post, but..

Many times, a very simple part is what works best for the song, and trying to throw in more complex parts where you’re engaging multiple pedals and knee levers just because you’re able to, doesn’t necessarily make the music sound better.

This is VERY true.

[Stu Schulman]

Alex,For me it all goes out the window when I show up for a live gig,I have spent way too much time fighting a drummer who plays fills every measure and craps all over solos,intros,endings,turnarounds etc,you get the picture.Not to mention speeding every song up at least thirty beats.We only have two drummers up here who can make it in the real world,one of them is in the Air Force Band and the last time that I saw him he was leaving for something called Artic Maneuvers?Playing at home is safe and I can work on ideas without distractions...live it's a gamble.

[David Mason]

The thing that interests me most about music is the schemes and tools that are used to construct melodies, and there are a couple of {fairly} surefire ones available. In simple rock or country, you can usually get away with playing a lick, playing it up a 4th, then 2 frets higher (up a 5th), then again an octave higher. That turns a 4 note lick into 16, or an 8 note lick into 32. Pretty much any lick can be inverted - just play it backwards. You have to pay attention to the chord changes, but you can play the same relative pattern through the scale, up and down - for example 1-3-5 becomes 2-4-6, then to 3-5-7 etc. This presupposes that you know where the notes are, and how to play them cleanly.

I only play C6th, but that E9th crying style of playing with several shifting notes moving against each other seems like it could be pretty dangerous over a song with lots of chord changes. BIAB and/or some sort of written self-notation would be two ways to go. It doesn't have to be formal music, in fact a Nashville chart and some scribbled note numbers might be easier - a note that's the 3rd in one chord, moved down a whole-step, becomes the (?) in the next chord etc. Obviously the more people you have supplying rhythm chords, particularly with 6ths, 9ths, b7ths and all, the less room you'll have for funny stuff.

[Jim Sliff]

Alex - the best system I've ever found to "branch out" confidently is to mostly practice music that has NOTHING to do with what the band plays. Assuming you know those songs, take your practice time and play things completely out of the ordinary - surf music, reggae, rock, 60's bubblegum pop, heavy metal...

I use a little Fender GDec practice amp and play along with backing tracks in a wide assortment of styles. It's amazing how much stuff you find you can adapt "on the fly" live. But as long as you practice "fanicer"versions of your normal material, you'll invariably fall into a "safety zone" live and just play the same simple stuff.

[Fred Glave]

This has been my problem, but it is getting better. I think part of it is that we are afraid to look/sound bad. It is safer to stick to the most basic and simplist moves. It can be boring. I found that I may plunk out some blunders, but the payoff is that it won't happen again. Donny is right, some of the prettiest music is so simple on the steel. When you feel comfortable at home with new moves, use them with the band and take the heat. They will slowly move into your comfort zone.

[Bo Legg]

I try others licks I've heard but never practiced as I play with the band. I never hit them exactly like the other person did but the lick becomes mine. I try to remember a lot of steel phrases so I can use them if the song reminds me of a phrase, but I never practice or try to "can" licks. I have noticed it is hard not to "just phone it in" when the band plays country songs that are not very challenging.