single body vs double body for S10

Phil Halton · From: Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA

I'm looking for a new/better guitar and am a little stuck on the single vs double body question. I want to stick with a S10 for now, but I don't know if I'd like a S or SD10 with pad. I don't have much opportunity to test drive different guitars and I'm currently learning on a Carter Starter.

For one thing, where are the Knee levers on an SD? at the rear apron like with a S10 or further in under the neck itself? What are the major differences I should be aware of between S and SD guitars both in terms of tonal quality and playability?

I'll be at the PSGA show in Norwalk CT this November, and there'll be a booth for GFI, Fessenden, and ShowPro guitars there, so I'll put off buying til after I've seen what I can see there.

I'm currently considering CarterS10, GFIS10 and Magnum. The Magnum guitar is definitely in the running, but its only SD body, so I want to see or at least hear about those type guitars before I make a final decision.
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

It's probably impossible to generalize a difference in tone between the S10 and SD10 configurations. Too many other variables.

In terms of playability, an SD10 may give more stability when pedals and knee levers are pressed, because of its wider stance. (Williams offers a model, the S10WB--for "wide body"--that has a narrow pad on the back, so that the body dimensions are in between S10 and SD10, but the legs angle out in such a way that the stance matches that of an SD10.)

The wider SD10 body gives more flexibility in front-to-back placement of knee levers, which some find enhances the ergonomics and/or comfort of using the knee levers, but it depends on the player's anatomy and preferences. It's definitely an advantage if you want a lot of knee levers, i.e. more than one going the same direction on the same knee--but even there probably not strictly necessary.

The pad is a subject of debate. Some (myself included) find it comfortable to have something to rest your arms on while playing, some argue that that's bad technique and you should keep your arms off the pad even if you have one.

SD10 gives you a safe place (between the neck and pad) to put your picks, bar, tuning wrench, etc.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Definitely try some of each. If weight and size were no object, I'd probably prefer a double-wide for ergonomics with my long legs - but they are, so most of mine are single-wide - both S-10 and S-12 universal. Actually, the S-12s are mostly single-and-a-half - they are definitely a bit wider than the typical S-10.

On the positioning of levers, it depends on the guitar. I've seen some - like on a Sierra - that are pretty much all the way to the back. Others have a mix of depth on the guitar - some back, some further forward. It's sometimes possible to move them around some. I like them pretty far back, since my arms are long and moving back away from the guitar a bit gives my legs room underneath. This is all personal preference, I think.

I think it's important for someone starting out to get the guitar ergonomically comfortable. It's tough enough to learn without fighting the instrument. But I think one needs to sit behind a bunch to tell what works and what doesn't. I know it's not so easy to find a lot to try out in Western MA - my family is in Amherst, I get it. Cheap flights to Nashville? It's fun and educational to hang out at Bobbe Seymour's. Or perhaps DC, which is not too far away from Billy Cooper's in VA.

Phil Halton · From: Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA

Dave wrote "Cheap flights to Nashville? It's fun and educational to hang out at Bobbe Seymour's. Or perhaps DC, which is not too far away from Billy Cooper's in VA."

Well, I am a travellin' fool and that sounds like a fun time. Maybe a trip to Nashville is the way to go, rather than buying sight unseen.

I'm hoping the Norwalk show in November will answer alot of questions for me.
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here.

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

Phil,
I play an SD/10 simply because for myself it's more comfortable, it just fits me better than a single body.

I agree with Dave, it's a good thing to try out as many different styles as you can, then choose what's best for you, not what the rest of us think we like best.

The past 10 years I've had four good guitars, but found I wasn't happy with them for some reason or another,[knee lever spacing, etc. etc.]

Like you, we don't have a large selection of steels to choose from, or to try out here in this corner of
Az, but I've settled in with a Carter SD/10 and think it's a keeper for me.

I do want to add 2 more steels to my stable in the future, a Desert Rose SD/10 because I think it's a superb guitar, and a Sho-Bud LDG, just because. Very Happy

Best of luck in your search for that "just right" steel.

Larry
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

David Doggett · Posted 6 Sep 2007 8:59 pm

Some people say there is a difference in tone, but I have a D10, D12, and three S12 universals, and the S12s sound better (but they are all different brands). Even people who claim a difference in tone don't agree which is better. I don't think it's a consideration.

I don't understand the long legs point. The strings and your hands end up directly over your feet with an S or SD, and you sit the same distance from your feet and hands and the pedals. The only difference is that an S has more space between your belly and the back of the guitar, but so what? I just don't get it.

The wide pad of an SD gets in the way of my arms. I also play keyboards, and can't imagine having a big wide pad in front of the keyboard. I do have a thin pad like mentioned on the Williams. You can have one of these made. If there is not room for it on the ledge at the back of an S, it can be clamped on the rear legs.

A big problem for me with an SD would be the extra size and weight. For playing aroung town, I don't break my instrument down and put it in a case. I just carry it out and stand it up behind the back seat of my minivan. My music room is in my basement, and I have to carry the guitar up my steep and narrow basement steps with a right angle bend at the top. I couldn't negotiate that with a double. To save my back, I can actually put my single up on my shoulder, with my arm stuck between the middle pedal rods so I can hold onto the pedal bar. With the body resting on my shoulder and my hand around and under the pedal bar, it's a very comfortable way to carry it up and down stairs and across big parking lots or dance floors. That leaves my other hand free to open doors, fight off adoring women, pick up a beer at the bar, etc. I could never do that with a double.

So I don't get the appeal of the SD. It would just cause problems for me and I would get nothing I want in return. But some people love them. Differences of opinions - that's what creates a variety of models, and horse racing.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

Tucker,

That's what I was trying to say. Very Happy

That explains it much better than I did.

Larry Very Happy

_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

(Williams offers a model, the S10WB--for "wide body"--that has a narrow pad on the back, so that the body dimensions are in between S10 and SD10, but the legs angle out in such a way that the stance matches that of an SD10.)

Brint, you nailed it. I have the Williams series 600 S10WB and the stability is the same as the D10's but with less weight, so you have the best of both worlds...plus the fact that you have the Williams advanced changer...which is a real plus.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Before you decide, there is one other test you need to make: Pick the guitar up and see what it's going to be like carrying it around all the time.

That 85 pound guitar might play like a dream, and sound terrific, but your back might be happier with the 20 pound guitar that isn't quite as nice, but is a lot more portable.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

An S10 is just so much easier to carry. I play an S10 and an SD10. It takes a while to get used to the smaller body if you start on an SD10, as I did, but once you are comfortable on it, the difference in weight and size when loading it and carrying it up and down stairs makes the S10 my preference.
If I was a lot stronger, it wouldn't be a consideration...Jerry

Jacek Jakubek · From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

To me, ergonomics is the most important factor when choosing a guitar. An uncomfortable instrument will make your progress much slower and less enjoyable, maybe even give you cramps or an injury over time.

I don't like the single body for the exact reason Tucker Jackson mentioned above; it forces me to sit too close to the guitar to reach the knee levers, making my legs feel cramped against the pedal rods.

My Carter SD-12 came with the knee levers attached further in under the guitar. I moved them as close towards myself as I could and now my guitar feels much more comfortable to play.

I suppose some people can play just as comfortably on a single body and you might be one of them. But, at least with a double frame, you have the option of moving the knee levers if you like to sit a little farther away from the guitar and find them uncomfortable.

I also find the pad nice to rest my wrists, even though I'm not resting on it all them time.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

One of the attractive features of an S-10 is the lighter weight. But for some brands, there isn't much difference between the SD- and S-10.

For example, my Carter SD-10 is 48 pounds in the case. Downsizing to an S-10 would only drop 5 pounds. For me, the roomy comfort of the SD-10 was more important than losing the 5 pounds.

There's no "right" answer, just personal perference.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I might add that the body Width difference between the S10WB and the D-10 is only 2 and 3/16 inches...like we said before the leg stance is the same.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: