re-stringing slotted headstock - "ashtray" style

[Chris Walke]

I've got a National D6 console, and while re-stringing one of the necks last night I remembered why I don't re-string this guitar as often as I should. It's a pain.

The headstock is slotted, but not slotted all the way thru. The back of the headstock is wood, like a tray, I guess similar to the Fender ashtray tuner pans(?).

Can anyone describe your your re-stringing method? Do you tie off your string by wrapping it back on itself? Do you cut the string right away, or deal with the excess end pulling thru the bottom of the tuner pan?

[Tom Pettingill]

You mean something like the headstock I did on my steels?

What I do is thread it through the hole leaving some slack, bend the tail back and clip it strait off.

.

[Chris Walke]

I wish the headstock was like that. The string poles go all the way across the slots, in other words, anchored at both ends.

Here's a pic of similar headstock from Brad's page:
http://www.well.com/~wellvis/steels/Nat ... onsole.jpg

[Andy Sandoval]

Chris, Carter Steel Guitars has a cool tutorial on string replacement. Check it out. Click Here

[Chris Walke]

Chris, Carter Steel Guitars has a cool tutorial on string replacement. Check it out. Click Here

Yeah, that's also showing a more ideal headstock. Would be much easier if my headstock were like that.

Better pic of a similar headstock here (scroll down), except the bottom of the tray is wood.
http://www.northcoastguitars.com.au/granadaempics.html

[Mark White]

Chris, I have a National 8 string and it's the same way when I restring, a big pain in the butt. I don't have a slick trick for you, I struggle through it the same way. I'm thinking of selling it, I just got a Lap King and the National isn't getting much use lately.

[Dave Mudgett]

I had an old D8 National with the same type of tuner/headstock, and this is exactly the situation with the Fender ashtray tuners - my Stringmaster is the same deal.

I figure out the slack needed, cut the string to the correct length, stick the tip into the tuning peg hole enough to hold onto it, and then wind it. Otherwise, the string slack is cutting into the the back of the tuner pan and often winds itself around the tuner peg.

To me, the tricky part is figuring out how much slack you need to both get enough winds around the peg to give a firm grip on the string, as well as give as close to straight string pull as possible. I think this works easier on the wound strings - the plain strings tend to slip around more in the tuner peg hole. But it can be done. You could tie the string off to hold it better, but I don't usually do that since I generally put several windings on the post - a few for wounds and generally more for plains - quite a few more for the thin plains.

I don't remember how the strings were anchored at the bridge end on the National, but on the Stringmaster, they don't pass through anything securely and the ball end can pop out while winding. So I wedge something in there to keep that from happening so I can focus on what's going on at the tuner end until it's just tight enough to hold itself in at the bridge. Then I pull out whatever I'm using to hold it in - a piece of wood, screwdriver, or whatever - and finish tightening up the string.

This happens sometimes on pedal steels also - my early Emmons Legrande with the short headstock has the opposing 5th and 6th string tuners so close together that they are just about touching, which leads to pretty much the same problem.

I remember a Bobbe Seymour newsletter or post where he chided players for winding with lots of slack on the string because it often tears up the top of the guitar under the tuners. I agree.

[Mark White]

I cut mine also before I start winding. I have 2 Fenders and it is the same situation except the National is worse.....even less room on the post (the string holes are right next to the wood on some) and less room underneath also. The strings are anchored with a very similar setup to the Fenders, (a little triangular hole). Thanks for the tips Dave.

[Chris Walke]

Yep, Mark - that's exactly what I'm talking about.
Dave - thanks for the tips!

I never hear of anyone having trouble with this, so I thought maybe I was just trying to go about it the wrong way.

I'm thinking, just thinking, about cutting those slots all the way thru to make things easier. Is there a physical/mechanical reason I should not do this?

This is my gigging guitar, not a collector's piece, so I'm not worried about the "original" status of the guitar's condition.

[Tom Pettingill]

Wow ... that is a thin slot. I can see where that is a major pain in the butt.

As far as cutting the slots all the way through, it certainly could have an adverse effect on the structural strength of the strip that holds the tuners.
Without knowing the grain orientation at the remaining connecting wood, it would be a gamble.

I wonder if a small offset needle nose pliers or hemostat type tool wouldn't be handy when stringing it up.

[Michael Papenburg]

I used to own a Fender Deluxe 6 with a similar headstock. What I used to do is this:

1. Slip the end of the string through the slot until it pokes through the other side a tiny bit.

2. Turn the tuning machine until you can push the string through more without it hitting the bottom of the cavity.

3. Pull the string through all the way.

4. Using my right hand, I pulled the string approximately 1 palm length away from the fret board. This usually leaves enough string to have enough winds around the post.

5. Hold the string at the tuner with your left hand and cut the string with 1/4" or so sticking out.

6. Wind the string to pitch.

I'm not claiming that this method was easy but it worked for me. I use a variation on the same method with my Tele because the strings need to be cut to length and inserted into a hole in the tuners.

Please feel free to ask questions if my explanation isn't clear.

[Colin Brooks]

I've had a lot of experience with this type of routed headstock. On Nationals I use a piece of rubber cut from what you Americans call an eraser (we call them rubbers which you chaps find funny!) to stop the ball end escaping from the tailpiece. Cut the string to allow 3 or 4 turns and you should be OK. I gave up tying off strings many years ago and have never had any trouble with slipping.

I also have a late 20's Stromberg Vosinet, the one with an Hawaiian scene painted on the front. This has a routed headstock with very little room under the tuner shafts. This sounds best with Newtone strings, which are wound on round rather than hex cores. If you cut those strings before they are under tension they will often unwind and go dead. So you have to use the full uncut string, and get half a turn on it before you cut it. You really need 3 hands for this! I never change strings on this one without it drawing my blood.

[Mark White]

Yes, what Tom said. Needle nose pliers are a must....and lots of patience. I wouldn't cut the slots all the way through for the reasons Tom gave.

[Chris Walke]

Thanks all for the advice. I'll spare knife and persevere. All of your recommendations should help tremendously. Thanks especially to Michael for the step-by-step. Very clear.

[Michael Papenburg]

I'm glad that you found my post helpful. One thing I should mention is that I tend to turn the tuning machine a little bit before I cut the string off. This helps the machine to grab the string so it won't fall out of the hole as easily.

Good luck.

[Sam Floyd]

Oh Boy

I am going to have fun when my new set of strings arrive for my Fender Quad

V/r,

Sam