A question for the pro's............

[Erv Niehaus]

Basilh,
Sorry about that. My tongue got wrapped around my eye tooth and I couldn't see what I was saying!

[Tom Campbell]

My 2 cents:

Engage a knee lever...depress (press) a pedal.

Pick grip = chord (all notes played at the same time.

You can play an arpeggio or roll by playing the single notes in a "pick grip"

[Brint Hannay]

Don't know if I qualify as a "pro"--I get paid for playing, anyhow--but I generally use "grip" to describe a group of strings (could be only two) that form a chord or partial chord, whether picked simultaneously or sequentially, though mostly for simultaneously, because it's as if you "grip" the strings before picking them, and have to position the fingers in that configuration before contacting the strings. I never thought that made me "not a pro". (Maybe my playing does, but that's another story!)

I generally speak of "hitting" a pedal or lever, or "releasing" it. Seems easiest to me. If a pedal is to be pressed before striking the strings, I refer to it as being "down"--a knee lever is "engaged".

Seems as though "mash" is a regional thing. I've heard people speak of "mashing" an elevator button. It always sounds odd to me.

[basilh]

You know, it looks very much like we are beginning to get a consensus regarding terminology, and also (I think) an admission that Mashing is not the best way of putting it.

[Nic du Toit]

Mashing....a potato?

I normally just say :With A & B pedals in.....", or "With xyz lever in", or, "no pdals", etc.

(Personally I dislike the term "depress pedal xyz"...... With the negative 'de...' attached it always made me think that the term meant 'no pedal'.)

[basilh]

I know what you mean about the negative Nic, press would seem to be OK, but doesn't it imply using a hand ?
At least in the UK English it might lean towards that.

[Nic du Toit]

I get what you mean, Basil..... would that not leave the door open to use the word 'stomp' if referring to a pedal....?? Arrrrrrrgh !
I actually had a hard time getting a student not to stomp on the pedals so violently......the whole guitar shook when he 'stomped' on the pedals. In his case it was the right word to use......after re-setting his pedal set-up, he only needed to gently step on the pedals.
As I said before, I tend to go with "pedal X in", or out. Same goes for the levers. Short and to the point.
I reckon it is a good thing that we are talking about the lack of standard phrases.....great to hear different opinions.
Nic

[basilh]

So, why not try and list the likes and dislikes of the nomenclature.

In my mind I simply HATE
1. Mash
2. Stomp
3. Kik

All of which to me imply MUCH more force than is actually applied.

Now for the likes,
1. Engage
2. Use
3. Press

Of course the interpretation of the English language varies so much that it may be impossible to find a common standard, just look at Bonnet/Hood, Boot/Trunk and so many other variances.
I'm not so sure I personally would use In or Out as they imply a horizontal movement rather than an up/down movement as in the USE of pedals.
(Unless it's a 'Knee Trembler')

But then again, a 'Brummie's' interpretation may vary compared to a "Cockney' or 'Jordie'.

It may be 'Eutopian', but I DO long for some standardisation within the world of steel guitar, see this post on 'Grips'
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=116325

[Nic du Toit]

Ha-ha-ha....... I suppose if you are really into the song you are busy playing it may result in a 'knee trembler'. Thanks for the link.

Thinking of the scenario when trying to explain a certain lick, or phrase, I may say "playing string one on the first fret, bring the A pedal in as you pick the next note on string 5 on the same fret".....
So, it would appear there won't be just one way of referring the the action to be taken.... like, are you replying to a question, or trying to explain that you bring a pedal in (-to play) just before, or after, you play a certain note. Another one::Let the note ring while you let the X pedal off (out) as soon as you've picked that note.....
I reckon we will end up with terminology for the American steelers, and one for European players.....

Ray, any ideas?

Regards,
Nic

[Erv Niehaus]

kik?

[David Doggett]

Well, I’m only a semi-pro, but since we seem to be talking semantics and not technique or theory, seems like it’s turned into a free-for-all. In some ways the informal grassroots descriptive terms used in steel guitar parlance are charming. This is an instrument that came up from the backwoods and working-class America, rather than being passed down from elite European music and music schools. You can try to put fine points and restrictions on the term “grip” if you want. But I think the attempt will be doomed. In common usage it is a general term for the combination of fingers and strings used for a chord or arpeggio, and can apply to any two or more strings, whether adjacent or not. I have also seen it used to describe the posture of the whole hand, and even the arm. So some players’ sit far to the right end of the instrument and have a grip that sort of comes in from the right end of the strings. Others sit more facing the instrument and have a grip that comes in from the side of the strings.

The term “mash” is apparently a bit of a colloquialism meaning to firmly push against something that gives with some resistance, exactly as pedals do. In the South and Midwest it is a perfectly useful mechanical description with no extraneous implications. It is more or less synonymous with “press.” But it is used when the thing being pressed moves a moderate distance with resistance. “Press” does not necessarily have this meaning, as things may be pressed against without having any give. Also, a very short movement with little resistance would typically get the term “push.” Buttons are “pushed.” So colloquially in the region where the pedal steel guitar was developed, the term “mash” makes perfect sense; and growing up there myself, I have never seen any problem with the term. But apparently the term has objectionable implications in other places. I suppose the term “press” will do, but it seems a little stilted.

In the broader sense of the class history of the English language, the working people of the South and Midwest prefer the simpler mono-syllabic Anglo-Saxon synonyms (the four-letter words) over the more complicated multi-syllabic Anglicized forms of words derived from Latin and Norman French. So “mash” is preferred to “depress” or “activate.” And “grip” is preferred to “position” or “posture,” or other “fancy” words one might come up with to describe the finger/string combination. Bill Hankey can step in any time here and make the counter argument, but then, he lives in New England.

[Bo Legg]

I play for money and I made a living playing Steel so I'm sure that makes me a pro. I didn't say how good of a living but I'm HALL OF FAME IN MY PRICE RANGE.
I would like to give you one standard perfect name for everything related to the Pedal Steel Guitar. Examples: The F...... 2nd chromatic string in error. The F...... unengaged lever for the E's when C pedal is used. You’re too F....... loud. Grip this M..... F..... .

[Nic du Toit]

Bo,
Yeah!.......you're right.... Just last night I found out that I refer to any pedal or lever as the 'F' one
Nic

[David Doggett]

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout - those good ole Anglo-Saxon four-letter words.

[R. D. Miller]

Another term not mentioned yet that I often read or hear is "squeeze", as in applying the A pedal slower than just "mashing" it