pedal steel guitarists.. INSTANT virtuosity...

Malcolm Leonard · Post by **Malcolm Leonard** » 7 Aug 2005 9:32 pm

Well,I believe that there is a great deal more to life then immediately meets the eye and is obvious to us.I believe in a basic source or spiritual reality(call it God,if you will)that is capable of accomplishing all things.Some people are able to tap directly into certain aspects of this limitless power and that is what genuis is all about.
Hank senior was quoted as having said that God wrote his songs for him.
Malcolm

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 9 Aug 2005 12:52 pm

I agree with Bob Carlucci I to have been playing a long time,I'm almost sixty six ,got my first guitar when I was ten.I am still a mediocre player after playing thousands of hours in clubs,thousands of hours playing at home. But i'm so thankful each time I get on that bandstand with my friends and participate in the most satisfying occupation on earth,making music.The only thing that has bothered me over years,I have had several friends that were so good they could work something out in five minutes that would take me an hour.several of them have been gone for years because of alcohol or drugsand I would think how great it would be if I had their talent and my desire.I never could understand how some of these guys could have this GOD given talent and did'nt seem to give a damn! Oh well if we were all a prodigy the BIG E would be just be another face in the crowd.That would be bad,bad,bad

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 12 Aug 2005 10:01 pm

The point about starting young is true. If you start playing when you're eight or nine, and love it, you'll probably become pretty good because you'll practice a lot. Most of us didn't really start young on the steel, since it was considered a difficult instrument, and because most of the country, except for the south, didn't even know what a steel was.

I think musical talent is a pyramid, with a few people on top who have perfect and relative pitch. How many is a few in this country...50,000??? Then the next step is developing that talent. The wild card is that people who have that talent are more driven to develop it because they can hear the possibilities better than others.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 13 Aug 2005 2:03 am

I have had several friends that were so good they could work something out in five minutes that would take me an hour.several of them have been gone for years because of alcohol or drugsand I would think how great it would be if I had their talent and my desire.

Charles, at least you're still able to figure out the songs and they can't.
Time isn't the factor, longevity is.

I think your big point is that no matter at what level, being there, playing with cohorts, doing it is the thing.
"Genius does what it has to; talent does what it can." You and I just do what we can, and I love it.

And yes, I wish I had discovered pedal steel at ten. But the Horse Whisperer said "I never regret anything I didn't do."

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Aug 2005 3:26 am

I think very early exposure to advanced music wires the brain to understand it quickly.

Once finger memory is added to that it is an easier juxtaposition.

Hence the young man going from cello to mando very fast.
Once he knew the mando fingering distances, similar to cello, it was easier,
especially with no need for intonation issues at the same level.

But I also suspect dad's music playing in the background of his young life wired his brain to accept it more quickly.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 13 Aug 2005 6:01 pm

Charlie ,Your right,I'm still here trying,Because of bad judgements some of my dear friends can't. I also wish I had started playing steel when I was ten. I got my first six string when I was ten, made a lot of money over three decades with it. Was in my fiftys when I started trying to and I'm still TRYING to play steel.In the beginning my bandmates wanted me to double on guitar and steel.I accidently on purpose forgot to bring my Tele one night,and I've not played it on stage in over ten years. And I don't regret it at all.

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 16 Aug 2005 3:28 pm

Dick, Remember the fifth (I think) commandment, Thou Shalt not Steel.

I think the reason these kids are progressing so quickly has to do with technology. These kids have access to tablature, and all kinds of things on the Internet that we didn't have. Also, they are better at multitasking than I am. I see kids who are watching TV, playing computer games, chatting on the computer, and maybe playing guitar at the same time. It takes all my focus just to have my bar in the right place, with the right pedals and knee-levers depressed, and my fingers on the right strings.

I think also as others have said, that kids are not afraid of sounding bad. They don't set themselves up for failure with negative thoughts. They just do it and see what happens.

------------------
Joe Drivdahl - GFI SD10 "Ultra"
Peavey Nashville 400
Peavey Nashville 1000

[This message was edited by Joe Drivdahl on 16 August 2005 at 04:30 PM.]

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 16 Aug 2005 5:01 pm

Dave Mudgett, your brain is in EXACTLY the right place ... And also hello to Joe Goldmark by the way.[This message was edited by Barry Blackwood on 16 August 2005 at 06:05 PM.]

Bob Doran · Post by **Bob Doran** » 4 Jul 2007 6:49 am

However three things make up for a lot:

Correct practice- I always say, if you haven't practiced right along with the song playing on the CD, you haven't practiced.

Confidence- priceless- many less talented players sound great just because they are so confident.

Knowing that virtually all musicians, when hearing another player, always feel the other guy is doing it better. I think a lot of that is that one hears the music differently when listening than when playing, probably because the angle is different.
I know that when I have accidentally heard myself playing from recorded music, I sounded a lot better than I thought i was! Even wondered, wow, who is that guy?!

Bob

Marc Mercer · Post by **Marc Mercer** » 4 Jul 2007 7:24 am

Some say I came out of my momma's belly clutching a BJS bar in one tiny fist. Doctors couldn't explain it. The Head Nurse spoke up - said "Leave this one alone" - she could tell right away I had tone to the bone.

Now, others say not a word of any of this is true; all I know is, some fifty years later, I STILL can't play.

Happy 4th of July, folks!

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 4 Jul 2007 8:38 am

I love it when old threads are brought back to life!

Joe Butcher · Post by **Joe Butcher** » 4 Jul 2007 11:45 am

Children lack the self conciousness that adults have. They often express creativity with reckeless abandon. Children dont worry about " I wonder if other people think this sounds good."

When you give a kid fingerpaints, they just put it on the paper in a way that looks good to them and makes them happy. Creativity from the brain to the canvas with no stops in between.

Play your instrument to make YOU happy. Take chances. Make mistakes. Lose the self conciousness. Stop worrying if you should switch to the Day setup or if you should install a Franklin pedal or about your damn pickup impedence.

Just play. Play with confidence. Stop thinking so much.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Jul 2007 12:47 pm

Excellent advice, Joe.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 4 Jul 2007 4:37 pm

I agree with Joe on this - to really learn well, one has to be able to immerse oneself in something just for the joy of it - no pretensions, no inhibitions. IMO, that pure joy releases the things that make it possible to learn rapidly. Then analysis becomes a tool to create stuff you love.

Pat Martino's fifth post down covers a lot of issues as well as I've ever seen them stated:

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthre ... 335&page=5

This is an insightful artist who not only creates amazing stuff, but I think also understands the creation process well. That thread is amazing, all 53 pages and still running strong.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 5 Jul 2007 5:01 am

"Prodigies" are not the result of "perfect practice" or 16-hour practice days.

They just are.

It's not something to understand HOW to do, because there IS no method.

It's just one of the mysteries of the human brain yet to be unravelled. We only use a small percentage of its capabilities; it's thought that prodigies somehow tap into the unused parts in an astonishing manner.

It can't be explained, because there is no process or system to explain. It's just the way those folks' brains operate.

I also don't completely agree with Donnie here - I've heard many "by rote" prodigies as well...but I've heard others that could play emotively as well as any of the best.

The best thing you can do is just be amazed by these players - you can't figure out how to do it, so don't try

John McGlothlin · Post by **John McGlothlin** » 5 Jul 2007 5:17 am

This topic is very interesting and my personal beleif is that if anyone really wants to accomplish a musical instrument.....all they have to do is be willing to reach that goal. Players like these young ones accomplish their goal by having the simple desire to master the pedal steel guitar. I don't beleive anyone is limited to what they can accomplish unless of course they just apply the limits themselves. John

Joseph Carlson · Post by **Joseph Carlson** » 6 Jul 2007 10:11 am

Joe Butcher wrote:
Play your instrument to make YOU happy. Take chances. Make mistakes. Lose the self conciousness. Stop worrying if you should switch to the Day setup or if you should install a Franklin pedal or about your damn pickup impedence.

Just play. Play with confidence. Stop thinking so much.

Truer words were never spoken.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Jul 2007 12:18 pm

well, a little history never hurts. here is an article from Koos's website..written by BE..

Now please be assured that I am a huge Koos fan and was ever since I got a hold of the United Steels of Europe LP back in the late 70's or so...I still am today.

article:

and in Koos's own words.
http://www.buddyemmons.com/TheBigE.htm
----------------------------------------------------------
The first time I got interested in steel guitar was when I heard Tom Brumley play on the "Carnegie Hall" album of Buck Owens. At that time I had never heard of Buddy Emmons. It must have been around 1969 that I stumbled into an album of Ray Price, called "Another bridge to Burn". And I was blown away by the steel sounds that came to my ear. I didn't even know it was Buddy Emmons, because the liner notes didn't say. I completely fell in love with this style of steel playing.
Then a few years later, I was astonished by the steel on "Volcanic Action of my Soul", by Ray Charles, which was played with so much musical ability, that I hardly could believe it was that country instrument. Still no name in the liner notes.
Then, a buddy of a friend of mine came up with an album which he already had for a couple of years, called "Country My Way" by Nancy Sinatra. Again I was astonished, this time it said in the liner notes Buddy "E" Emmons on steel guitar.
Then it all came to me, this must be the genius I've been looking for.
All this had a tremendous influence on my own steel playing, and I want to thank Buddy for this. I'm so glad we finally got to meet in 1976 in St. Louis and became good friends.

- Koos Biel -

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 6 Jul 2007 1:54 pm

It is times like these that we can appreciate what God gives to a select few to amaze us with their skill and technique.
Be strong, you see when those guys can't make the gigs, we are the ones they call.
There will always be a place for "us" somewhere on some stage. Take heart when they can't book them, they call us.
On a serious note, it is the rest of us that make steel guitar what it is. The general public couldn't tell you the difference between a "steel pedal guitar" and a "pedal steel guitar." I heard a guy say one time, in Nashville you can get what you want, but in my town, I'm all they got.
Hang in there, we too serve a purpose.

Good Day!

Joe Butcher · Post by **Joe Butcher** » 6 Jul 2007 4:22 pm

Dave Mudgett wrote: Pat Martino's fifth post down covers a lot of issues as well as I've ever seen them stated:

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthre ... 335&page=5

This is an insightful artist who not only creates amazing stuff, but I think also understands the creation process well. That thread is amazing, all 53 pages and still running strong.

Thanks for the Martino link......very interesting reading. Alot of great info to be found there. I think its fantastic that such an amazing player is basically letting us all have a look inside his creative mind. There are additional writings on his website that are worth checking out.

Bob Doran · Post by **Bob Doran** » 1 Sep 2007 11:06 am

Personally I think these prodigies ears are different from the rest of us.
Our lead guitar player is one of those guys.
As a song is played, he can name each chord no matter how complex every time and in real time.
Our keyboardist plays completely by ear.
One day someone had shifted the keyboard up a half step, thereby making even the easiest chords difficult.
Ken played all night and never even knew the pitch had been changed till someone told him.
Personally I think these guys see in color whereas most of us see in black and white.
For example when I hear a C chord, it sounds like one "note" to me whereas the gifted hear all 3 notes of the chord-C, E, G
Bob

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 1 Sep 2007 9:52 pm

woo soo cool.. another of my "dead dog" posts is re animated...

I'm glad this one is back..

its a full 2 years later, I suck as bad at steel as I ever did, and the young kids probably have progressed from prodigy to phenom stage by this time!

btw , I miss you guys.... bob

Jim Kennedy · Post by **Jim Kennedy** » 3 Sep 2007 10:28 am

At one time I was training as an educational psychologist. One theory of intelligence suggests that there are several basic types of intelligence including: math, social, spacial, artistitc as in painting and sculpture, and one was musical--can't remember them all off the top of my head. We all know people who are natural salesman--social intelligence--engineers, artists, or musicians. Anyone of "average intelligence" can learn, to a greater or lesser degree, the skills to be a mechanic, architecht, artist or musician. Some learn these skills easier than others. Thomas Edison never completed high school. Steve Wasznyack and Bill Gates were college dropouts. Einstein was a mediocre student and a teenager before he could tie his shoes. Some people are just great musicians without seeming to put any effort into learning their instrument. Some people master an instrument throughdesire, determination and effort. Our desire, and our inate ability, both determine how good we become at the things we choose to learn. I am sure that any of the great steel players would have been great on any instrument they chose. Some of us will be able to play steel better than others. Some will learn faster than others. A gifted few will do it as easily as opening a door. If you love it, don't be discouraged. Anything worth doing is worth doing until you an do it right. And don't forget there is more than one right way when it comes to pedal steel. IMHO

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pedal steel guitarists.. INSTANT virtuosity...

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