That's not like the record

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 22 Aug 2007 7:33 am

Though I try to be somewhat of a pro in attitude I have my snarky side, if I'm playing a BENEFIT I would have little patience for anal know-it-all audiences UNLESS they were players. But for the record - in all my years no-one has come up and said I "didn't sound like the record".

Sometimes audiences get a hair up their a** about something. Case in point - I played a barn dance with a country band and a woman came up and loudly exclaimed that some people wanted to hear 80's music, not country. WTF? The bass guy said: "Well, do yo want us to pack up and go home?" Moments later said woman was dancing her ass off.

Ah...humans.

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 22 Aug 2007 7:36 am

Most of the covers we do are fairly obscure to the general non-musician public, but we still try to get them similar and recognizable. On the more popular or famous songs we always try to put in the signature licks, like the intro or Folsom Prison for example. We've found that as long as the songs are similar and recognizable...and have the signture licks thrown in, no one complains.

A slight aside: We often throw more rides in if there are dancers. We were playing at a local critter club...forget if it was Elks, Eagles, Water Buffalo or what, but an old WW II vet came up to the stage and says, "You guys are pretty good, but your songs are too long. Two minutes! Two minutes!! My hips can't take it!" The funny thing was that there was an elderly lady with a wooden leg out there dancing up a storm...once for about for ten minutes at a time.

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 22 Aug 2007 7:53 am

I guess I'm from the same school Tony P is from. I've always tried to play close to a signiture lick when I felt it was expected. There is always plenty of time to jam or create. I think it's good for the most part to recognize a song right off the bat. It sets everything up. Also if you learn signiture lines you learn more things and it will vary your sound thru the night as apposed to everything sounding like the same jam thing. I believe it takes more dicipline.

Ever have to back a recording artist? They love it when you know their songs the way they were done.

We have another solution for line dancers. We don't play line dances.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 22 Aug 2007 8:11 am

City Lights intro I nail in whatever key...CAUSE YOU JUST GOTTA!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 22 Aug 2007 8:50 am

Over the years I've seen a lot of the most recorded and respected steel players of all time.

I've heard Emmons play 'A Way to Survive' DOZENS of times -- all different.

I've heard Cage play 'Panama Red' with neither the recorded intro or solo.

I've heard Jernigan play OBS with many different twists on his recorded versions.

etc, etc, etc

Yeah, I have heard players faithfully reproduce their classic licks but those who recorded them seem not to obsess over them as much as other players who idolize them.

I've been playing gigs for more than 3 decades and have never been fired from a band or a gig because I REFUSE to play what anyone else tells me I must play. Do I play the 'signature licks'? Sometimes; sometimes not. Actually the solo in 'Night Life' is the only one I ALWAYS play like the record. I don't really see the magic in many of the original recordings. I play for the moment and, like a conversation, I might say different things at different times.

Most in the audience at gigs I play (other than those mentioned before who use licks as cues for line dancing) have no clue WHAT A PEDAL STEEL GUITAR IS much less WHETHER I'M PLAYING THE ORIGINALLY RECORDED INTROS, TURNS, AND SOLOS.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 22 Aug 2007 9:02 am

This is one of the better threads in a while. It
points up we all have slightly different ways of arriving at the same place. As far as playing the melody, Charles Wilder hit it. There are all kinds of ways to do it, simply with your choice of
harmonized notes. To me it has always been an
enjoyable challenge to try and keep the melody interesting, while conveying that you really do
"KNOW THE SONG".

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 Aug 2007 9:12 am

I have read many a post and seen many an instructional video that clearly states that we, as PSG players, should be playing the melody. If that's the case, how can there be an argument?

Ahh - because not everybody agrees that this is always the way to go. Last I looked, that rule is not part of the Ten Commandments.

I think one needs to distinguish between not knowing how to figure out a melody and making a decision to do something different sometimes.

The point about multiple versions of a tune is also on-target. At a certain point - play the guitar, have fun, make money, and all that. Whatever works for y'all. IMHO.

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 22 Aug 2007 12:13 pm

I've always looked at the old country tunes as "standards" as opposed to "covers". To me the difference to me is that a "standard" is played with reverence for the material, but by no means note for note. "Covers" have always meant mindless replication to me. I think certain intros are very important to the song and should be played as closely as they can be to the original, others less so, but I have no intention of playing note for note steel solos (that isn't to say that learning them isn't incredibly valuable). The solos are where the individual performer's personality can come out and the player gets to interpret the song in his own way, as I'm sure the amazing players of the past likely did in live settings. I think the material should be respected, but not simply duplicated, otherwise the songs are no longer relevant, living musical things they become historical re-enactments.

Gabriel

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 22 Aug 2007 2:39 pm

George Jones recording of :Tall Tall Trees; 1957.

Allen Jackson, recording of Tall Tall Trees 1996.
What a difference! We play the Allen cover. I hate to say this

but I like Allen recording better than Jones. The band I work wih plays close to cover,but I have a little more lee way, add some steel where the cover song might not have steel. I have been told I don't play much of the song,but steel is not in there all the time like back in the 60's. Sometimes less is better,and not over playing.Sometimes jaming will add to over playing. Joe

Charley Wilder · Post by **Charley Wilder** » 22 Aug 2007 4:14 pm

(Less is better)I hear you,Joe! My situation was for a time was a real pain! I was the only lead in our band. We couldn't connect with a lead guitar player for a while. I got sick of my own playing real quick! I had to help stretch the song out, of course. Two leads, all the fills, and even instrumentals! It taught me a valuable lesson about over playing when we finally landed a lead player. I never wanted to do it again. I was MUCH better dealing with arrangements and had a lot less ego believe me!

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 22 Aug 2007 5:38 pm

I don't think I've ever got a response like that around here. I get the usual, "man I love steel!" or "sounded good man". I can't recall getting anything negative from the audience. Honestly, I don't think they're paying attention half the time. As long as the song is recognizable and the singer doesn't forget the words, most people are pretty happy. Truth be told, most people are too busy shooting pool, chasing women, drinking or just shooting the breeze with their buddies to pay any real attention to the band. I guess, we're just background noise LOL.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 22 Aug 2007 7:05 pm

The easiest response is, "What record ?"

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 22 Aug 2007 8:14 pm

That is THE definitive reply. Alan, go to the head of the class!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 23 Aug 2007 1:11 am

Sometimes the signature lick is part of the composition of the song, like "Statue of a Fool," "Jukebox Charlie," and others of that type. Other songs allow more freedom, except for the most anal amongst us.

As a sidebar, I've heard many, many singers I've worked with consistently screw up the lyrics of classic songs they *should* know, and no one has ever come up to any of them and reamed them out for their sins.

So I don't worry about it too much. If I'm embarassed at a gig for not knowing something I should know, I go back home and learn the solo. Problem solved at the next gig.

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 23 Aug 2007 3:40 am

I have never had anyone tell me I did not play the song like the record. I sure try to but there are times I personally do not like what is on the record and feel what I play fits the song better. Not every song on record has Lloyd Green, Buddy Emmons or any of the other greats playing on them. However, if a song has a great player on it I figure their licks will be top notch for that song and I try my best to be a copycat. As far as telling someone if they can play it better, I remember what a guy told me about smoking. He was outside of the hospital smoking when a lady walked up to him and asked him if she gave him a match would he burn his house down. He told her no and she replied that what he was doing to his body. His reply was if I gave you a dirty sock would you stuff it in your mouth.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 23 Aug 2007 5:59 am

In my band, we are somewhat faithful to the originals(mostly R&B), but not always. A lot of times I'll play a song before I've ever heard it! I have freedom to play what I want, as long as it "fits". I gave up long ago trying to be a tape recorder. Sometimes a song just has to have that riff( Brown Eyed Girl, Satisfaction, My Girl, etc), but everything else in the song is fair game. I am never rude to patrons(customers), either in the clubs or at my day job, that is bad business. JP

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 23 Aug 2007 6:24 am

I was playing a gig once and we did a few "Amazing Rhythm Aces" songs..on the last break the drummer told me that I was "killing" his girlfriend..seems like she used to live with thier lead guitar player and she took exception at the way I was covering his leads. $:\$

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 23 Aug 2007 7:27 am

Joe Miraglia wrote:George Jones recording of :Tall Tall Trees; 1957.

Alen Jackson, recording of Tall Tall Trees 1996.
What a difference! We play the Alen cover. I hate to say this but I like Alen recording better than Jones. The band I work wih plays close to cover,but I have a little more lee way, add some steel where the cover song might not have steel. I have been told I don't play much of the song,but steel is not in there all the time like back in the 60's. Sometimes less is better,and not over playing.Sometimes jaming will add to over playing. Joe

Myron Reed · Post by **Myron Reed** » 23 Aug 2007 7:32 am

To me, not playing the song like the original artist is like not singing like the original artist. You won't get as far with your career if you copy someone else. It's already been done. They did it their way. We do it our way.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 23 Aug 2007 8:06 am

Jim wrote

they've timed their every move to every note and if you don't play that note, they trip and fall down!

I've found that throwing a few bars of 5/4 occasionally is very effective in dealing with the line dancing problem.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 23 Aug 2007 8:11 am

lemme try and sum this up:
1. definitive signature licks that are an integral part of the song, especially intros? yes-play it like the record.
2. play the melody?-well duh! but remember theres more than one way to play it
3. Everything else?-unless you are a tribute band, who cares?

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 23 Aug 2007 8:26 am

Joe M. same post, two different days???

Dan T. well said. One band I was in used that Sting song, "Love is Stronger than Justice" to accomplish the desired result, a train wreck on the dance floor - (to the delight of everyone on stage!)

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 23 Aug 2007 8:49 am

Barry, allegedly John Paul Jones (of Led Zep) wrote the main line of 'Black Dog' so that they could see the audience fall down while trying to dance.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 23 Aug 2007 9:13 am

As a few have stated in here, if the original hit song has an intro, break or signature ride that is as much part of the song as the vocalist’s lyrics or melody; then, I agree, the musician should try his or her best to duplicate those features of the song.

Some people in an audience, may it be the small minority, do want you to play your music as per the original sound track.

Also, as was stated in here, some crowds pay little if any attention to the band. My take on this is that the band may be creating this problem themselves. Too much freedom of musical expression or, a band not doing their job. From four decades of playing in bands, I have found that almost duplicating the arrangement of certain sound tracks of hit songs always gets more than a few people looking towards the stage. You need these arrangements once in a while to get their minds honing in on your band’s music.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 23 Aug 2007 9:34 am

Barry, I was trying to edit. I misspelled "Alan" and entered quote instead. I also make a lot of mistakes when I play steel guitar.

Joe